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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Whe!

Finally beat the game :lol:

First off, my End game character levels:

Main Party:
Hero: 49
Milfa: 47
Arlowe: 47
Endora: 47

Mercenary Party
Louie: 46
Julia: 46
Sarah: 46
Grant: 44

Idol Party:
Janus: 48
Yarn: 46
Shiva:46
Gale:42

My thoughts about the game:

Game Difficulty: Easy Peasy with a slice of Tabasco goodness :D

The game is fairly easy.... if you never run away from any battle. Why? Battles are not really that intense in this game & if you always choose to fight than run, chances are you can get so over leveled that the bosses themselves won't be too difficult.
Spoiler! :
This is especially true towards the very end, within Zolde's castle. Zolde's flunkies, those guys who claim they ate Kyral's arms, legs & torso to form Voltron... err, I mean to give his life energy to Zuhl, were actually tougher cookies than Zolde in all his three forms goodness was :P All Zolde final form did most of the time was steal MP & use Mez throughout the battle.... probably because I always started off the battle having the hero cast Litam on Endora & Arlowe casting Meta Mahal....

*Insert useless bit of trivia here* In my language (Tagalog) Mahal means love :) *end pointless trivia*
...to negate any magical attacks that are thrown at me. On the second round the hero casts litam on himself & Arlowe uses Meta Poan & Milfa & Edora layeth teh smack on Zolde. The succeeding turns has the hero casting litam on anyone who hasn't have it & everyone bashing away & when everyone is powered up, the action get's intense :lol:

The only real challenge in the game are those darn light footed Flying Elementals who dodge almost every attack! But at least beating them nets a well earned reward :lol:

Incidentally, I found a neat little glitch/exploit you can use to make battles even easier...

This glitch only works if you have either your Mercenary or idol party in battle...

What you do is first determine if all four party members are fast enough that all four of them can pull off an attack before the enemy/ies can. If all of them can attack before the enemy can then you have the glitch in motion! Now what you do is start a battle with your light footed mercenary or Idol team, wait 'til all four have dealt an attack then quickly press the "B" button to end the attack cycle & whut!? The enemy will lose their turn/chance to attack! mwahahahaha! But you have to time it right, otherwise the enemy's attack will hit your main party members :lol: Now let your light footed team back in the fight, have 'em attack then cancel... keep doing this & the enemy will forever be unable to hurt you :lol:

This glitch won't work if you want to have your main party "steal" all of the experience points though as as soon as the last enemy falls the battle automatically ends even if you bash the B Button so all the experience points will have to be given to your light footed team.


Having said this, I do not intend to imply that the game was boring, hell no! I actually like it when RPGs are not so ridiculously difficult *cough*The 7th Saga*cough* because what I'm really after is the game's plot which is why if there are codes for RPGs that give you maxed out levels in one go & disable all random encounters available I use 'em to get all of the grinding out of the way so I can focus more on the plot.

Sadly, there are no such codes for Silva Saga II out yet :lol:

Graphics: Who cares! :P

I could care less if the game has awesome or crappy graphics as long as I have fun playing it I will love it! And this game is no exception :)

But I have to say this game has some of the best enemy sprite battle animations I've seen for a game of its time, kudos to whoever made 'em :)

Audio: Groovy tunes that can grow old easily...

The game has a few music tracks to accompany every situation you will face whether be it you walking all over the ginormous world map, or exploring caves or battling that end of Dungeon boss, the only problem is there's so few of 'em available & that "generic" battle theme can get old quick, so much so that I had to stop playing a few times for a break from the monotony.

Plot: Rant Ahead, BEWARE!

And now onto what I consider the most important aspect of any RPG....Teh story, but before you continue reading be warned that the following body of text might not be to your liking & if it is, I apologize for this is how I truly felt about the game's plot :(

Spoiler! :
Part 1:
Chosen by Circumstance....

The beginning of this game is eerily similar with how "Heracles no Eikou III" for the SNES (Fan Translated by DQ Translations) starts off, you are this guy with amnesia who wakes up in someone else's bed & are swept into an adventure for greatness.

The only difference is in this game you (the hero) were just some common Joe who happened to be in the wrong place at the right time.... From what I was able to gather from talking to people, especially from Dolun, is that the hero was just out with a fleet of ships whose purpose is uncertain (where they headed to battle Zolde just as Kyral was?) but had a terrible run in with one of Zolde's Generals which led to their fleet's obliteration & you washing up near Beta town.

The moment you regain your senses you acquire this urge to look for & succeed in Kyral's shoes even though you remember little of who you are (save your name) & where you were from.

In Heracles no Eikou III, you wake up in someone else's house but you do have faint flashbacks of who you were & what was your purpose/mission.

By the way, I'm confused as to how being chosen as a Light Warrior works in Silva Saga II. It's obvious that Kyral was blessed & borne as the Light Warrior, so how is it that a common Joe like the game's hero is able to pick off where Kyral left off & failed at?

I briefly played Silva Saga I up to where the hero in that game gets the blessing to become a Light Warrior & in that game the hero was also borne into this world as prince who is a prospective Light Warrior & not just some hick from a far off town.

I guess the developers of this game decided the peculiar "passing of the torch" idea to digress from the "Dragon Quest"-y element of every hero in the GQ franchise being related to the original Loto/Eldrick of the very first DQ Game.

Part 2:
Shotgun Marriage....

Ugh! the ending was absolutely horrible! >:(

First off why the hell does the game force you to marry a crazy stalker!?

Yes, I dare say that Maria hag is a crazed up stalker up until that scene she hugs & most presumable kisses you at the end, ugh!

If I could only be in the very same room I'd push her back & have my mercenary or idol team kill her, she's so God forsaken lame!

I really don't understand why the Japanese enjoy such badly written/thought out "romantic/love" elements in a story.

Now before you react negatively to my seemingly racist remark let me explain my point...

I've seen this plot element in a lot of Japanese RPGs where a very crappy & weak girl is partnered with a cool male character & are portrayed as perfect for each other. The best & probably well renowned of such a couple is Cloud & Aerith from Final Fantasy 7. The way the story in that game was presented is very reminiscent of how this Maria & the hero in Silva Saga II is presented.

Cloud Strife falls into sector 5's church after his gang successfully destroys another Mako Reactor. Aerith being chased by the Turks finds him & asks him to escort her home. Cloud obliges & once you arrive at Aerith's home Cloud is in love with her... hello!? That segment of the game is nary a minute long & you say you're in love with this girl you've just met!? You've felt something alright but that ain't love :P

Then there's that summoner witch from Final Fantasy 10, Yuna was it? I can hardly remember her name because she was just so peculiar & uninteresting to me but Tidus had the hots for her!? C'mon, Riku & that other female Voodoo doll user were way interesting than Yuna :P

And it's not only in video games, it is firmly imbedded in their cultural & moral beliefs that women should just be demure, shy, & obidient & let teh mans do all teh hard work & stuff. There's even this darn anime Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge that dictates what a "real woman" & how she should act for crying out loud >:( When this piece of crap was aired in my country I absolutely lost interest in Anime which is good because I almost turned Weeaboo. Actually a lot of newer Anime suck in my opinion & anything below 1996 are the only ones I consider good *cough*Slayers is one obviously*cough*

Anyhoo, back to Silva Saga II....

How can you "fall in love" with someone who doesn't even join you in your adventure? Sure she gives you a few herbs when you attempt to leave Beta town (yeah, a lot of help that does :P) but you "never" ever get to interact with her & get to know her. You know things like what she's into, what kind of personality she has, her favorite dress etcetera. All we get is that she's a timid prick who follows you around where ever you go, she doesn't even "pleasure" you like that one priestess does so WTF!? Yes I have amnesia so you better darn as hell do everything you can to help me remember who the hell you are & what kind of "relationship" we had & you can start off by pleasing me LOL!

Ugh, yeah, the game should have given a better explanation of the hero's past & who this Maria creep is & oh that whole load of bull that she's the embodiment of the God Ramulun was an epic fail explanation :P Just because you are a God is not a good enough damned reason for you to tie me down :P

And about being the "human incarnation" of a God, Maria, Ramulun or whoever she damn is is a poor attempt to be a "Lufia" a.k.a. Erim teh Goddess of Death wannabe because of how she interacted (or lack of) with the hero in game. As I said how can I develop a relationship with her if I know nothing of her? In Lufia & the Temple of Doom, we were presented a "Goddess" who was reincarnated as a woman who grew up with the hero (Maxim). And all throughout the adventure was with him & was very, very helpful (shove your useless herbs down your throat Maria >:) ).

Another example & in my opinion "the best" RPG that focuses on a love Story between a mortal & a Goddess is Lunar: Silver Star Story & in that game we really saw how the romance developed between Alex & Luna as well as between Jessica & Kyle. As for Nash & Mia, the game didn't have much to show but they too probably ended up together :)

So there you go, my opinion of the game's plot & the sickening ending....

Sigh, if only I could have married that Priestess instead :(


Oh & before I forget, I caught a few things that might interest you...

First of, I encountered that little Savestate issue yet again when I tried to enter the Red Tower. I don't have a savestate for it but the issue was still fixed by simply loading an in game save prior to entering said tower. The issue is similar to the one I encountered at Noland, the text for when you insterted the key for the red tower gets corrupted under frequent savestate usage.

Next is the definition for the Stator Spell:

Spoiler! :
Image

The definition reads... "This shell allows avoiding enemies". Isn't that supposed to be "spell"? And the definition for the spell is kind of off as you do not acquire a protective shell around your party but are instead given a temporary boost of running speed to lessen the chance of random encounters. So how about changing the definition to something like "Run as the wind to avoid enemies?".

And last is Ordol's dialogue:

Spoiler! :
Image

I think he meant "mortal", not "immortal"?

Well there you have it folks :lol:

I really had fun playing this game despite the cruel ending & it's all because of your hard work!

You truly made this game shine out from the darkness of forgotten greats!

And I hope to see you guys again on the next adventure! :D


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:07 pm 
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CRV10 wrote:
Whe!

Finally beat the game :lol:
.....
And I hope to see you guys again on the next adventure! :D
Heh, that was certainly a comprehensive critique! We appreciate yours and everyone's so far. I'll leave it to Red Soul to examine "shell-spell" and "immortal-mortal"...

What I've picked up mainly from the inputs is that using save-states may create a risk of textual glitches. (Cheats have been known to cause this also, but I've heard no reports regarding cheats in SS-II.)

If true, perhaps some dynamic in the coding triggers a variable routine that dials up string pointer misdirections. This is only a theory, however. To validate it, multiple people would need to play the entire game using only Magic Shop (SRM) saves and report they never experienced the glitch.

As for the "stalker" description, it's humorous that you would call her that.
Spoiler! :
Heh, it never dawned on me before, but that's exactly what Maria does. Harn empowered her to protect our hero, then he decided to go ahead and arrange their marriage as well - old world-style. Needless to say, we followed the major elements of the Japanese story line pretty much verbatim. We localized most of the dialogue culture, for sure, but far be it from us to alter the most basic cultural aspects of the major plot elements - especially when it's impossible because the ending is so totally linear!


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Those are some interesting points you brought up, CRV10.
Its nice that a game we put so much work and love into
leads people into actually rationalizing what they experience
to give such level headed feedback, thanks.

Now, if I may offer a few counter points to your argument,
at least from my own points of view:

CRV10 wrote:
By the way, I'm confused as to how being chosen as a Light Warrior works in Silva Saga II. It's obvious that Kyral was blessed & borne as the Light Warrior, so how is it that a common Joe like the game's hero is able to pick off where Kyral left off & failed at?


This whole game is surrounded by the notion of predestination - the hero is meant to do what he is meant to do, aware
of it or not, and events will lead toward that direction, regardless of any other forces involved.
Remember that the one that preserves the hero's soul with the call spell is the god of fate, that's no random gimmick.

CRV10 wrote:
Ugh! the ending was absolutely horrible! >:(
First off why the hell does the game force you to marry a crazy stalker!?
Yes, I dare say that Maria hag is a crazed up stalker up until that scene she hugs & most presumable kisses you at the end, ugh!
If I could only be in the very same room I'd push her back & have my mercenary or idol team kill her, she's so God forsaken lame!
I really don't understand why the Japanese enjoy such badly written/thought out "romantic/love" elements in a story.


Again, Maria is not really stalking anybody, she is an incarnation of Ramulun
as the gods aren't allowed to act directly on behalf of humans in the war
against the Zuhl. I see this as no different than being inspired to do the best you can,
by whatever higher force you believe in, and in case you don't believe in any
perhaps out of sheer human goodwill.
The Ramulun side of her drives her willpower yes, but in the process, I
believe she has genuine feelings for the character.

As for the cultural aspect you mentioned, the japanese aren't exactly openly
heartfelt people, at least not in general - games as such may be a manner of
escapism, a way to experience feelings that may be normally out of reach
for many, no different than reading a romantic novel.

I'm not exactly saying it couldn't / shouldn't have been done better
but its just how it is. There should have been a sort of side quest
to better elucidate such things, but the game is rather linear.

Now, for the error report.

1) You are most likely correct in this case, although
we'd have to consult the japanese original description
before making a precise assertion.

2) Its a good suggestion, but
conditioned to case #1 as well.

3) I believe this is not incorrect.
The tortures Kyral withstands, even with
his whole body devoured still continue
despite death, hence the game
asserts that souls do not perish and
by themselves are immortal.

CRV10 wrote:
I hope to see you guys again on the next adventure! :D


Surely you will, thanks again for your through
reports/opinion sharing


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:41 am 
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Hey guys, good job translating this game. Though pitifully easy, all of the attention put into the little things really made this game special.

Interestingly, I found that you do not actually have to defeat Zonde-III to beat the game. I decided to let him kill my party off on my first go at him, as I was unable to inflict enough damage to get ahead of his use of Mezl, yet he was not particularly damaging enough to beat me, either. As soon as I reappeared in the magic guild in the last town, the ending sequence began to play straight through to "THE END." I thought this to actually be very funny, indeed. How better to end such an easy game? I am pretty sure its an error, though. What is even funnier, is that I bet it was never spotted because no one lost to this boss during play-testing. Hell, I lost because I was too impatient to nickle and dime the guy and hope he would not heal again.

My play-through was via SNES9X on the Wii.

I would like point out that Wild Bill's writing in this game was pure class. RPG's are basically my religion, and I have played through literally hundreds of them. The care taken with the script is what I will most remember about this one, for certain. I have also played through DD's translations of FEDA, Just Breed (hell, yeah!), Lennus II, Ranma 1/2, The Slayers, and Villgust. Its safe to assume that I know my @#$%; Wild Bill, you know your @#$%, too. Without the charm put into it through your words, Silva Saga II would have been severely diminished. That is not to downplay the roles of you others that made the game work, period, however. You all did very well, and thank you for the opportunity to play Silva Saga II in English.

Feel free to heckle me where I live (http://secretartsgames.blogspot.com/). I just noticed my page layout is similar to that you all use for your projects' pages. Happy coincidence?


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Wes Falls wrote:
Hey guys, good job translating this game. Though pitifully easy, all of the attention put into the little things really made this game special.

Interestingly, I found that you do not actually have to defeat Zonde-III to beat the game. I decided to let him kill my party off on my first go at him, as I was unable to inflict enough damage to get ahead of his use of Mezl, yet he was not particularly damaging enough to beat me, either. As soon as I reappeared in the magic guild in the last town, the ending sequence began to play straight through to "THE END." I thought this to actually be very funny, indeed. How better to end such an easy game? I am pretty sure its an error, though. What is even funnier, is that I bet it was never spotted because no one lost to this boss during play-testing. Hell, I lost because I was too impatient to nickle and dime the guy and hope he would not heal again.

My play-through was via SNES9X on the Wii.

I would like point out that Wild Bill's writing in this game was pure class. RPG's are basically my religion, and I have played through literally hundreds of them. The care taken with the script is what I will most remember about this one, for certain. I have also played through DD's translations of FEDA, Just Breed (hell, yeah!), Lennus II, Ranma 1/2, The Slayers, and Villgust. Its safe to assume that I know my @#$%; Wild Bill, you know your @#$%, too. Without the charm put into it through your words, Silva Saga II would have been severely diminished. That is not to downplay the roles of you others that made the game work, period, however. You all did very well, and thank you for the opportunity to play Silva Saga II in English.

Feel free to heckle me where I live (http://secretartsgames.blogspot.com/). I just noticed my page layout is similar to that you all use for your projects' pages. Happy coincidence?
Heh, I certainly never allowed Zolde to beat me! It's shocking... shocking... to learn we can beat this game without beating this game!!

I must take off my hat to Shiva Indis for his major role in the finished SS-II story. He is not only an outstanding translator, he understands Japanese from the standpoint of traditional cultural nuances used in game conventions. In more than one place, he basically said, "Bill, what you wrote (in a given string) is not only funny, it fits okay within general translation options and flows well enough in the context of the story. But based upon my knowledge of Japanese syntax and folklore, here is what the character actually meant."

So, we postponed release for months so Shiva could comb through the blocks and make changes at his discretion. He not only produced a more accurate translation overall, he wove his wit, humor, and sense of drama so seamlessly into the story, I could barely distinguish between his work and mine. In fact, the only direct giveaways came to light when we discovered slight formatting adjustments needed on various screens. Needless to say, we hope Shiva will work with us again once he finishes the "lost block" in Chaos Seed.

Also, the Villgust and Ranma stories were jointly written by Taskforce and me, especially Ranma. TF and I are also collaborating on Princess Minerva (along with Eien) and the two Arethas, and his input is strong in Feda. Draken did all the formatting and first drafting in Mystic Ark, and he co-authored the second half of Lennus-II. Moreover, Drakee's strong sense of flow has smoothed the stories for every project since Lennus-II. Red Soul's strong positive influence has contributed vitally to every story from Mystic Ark forward. l would have been lost in Slayers without Filler's collaboration. The fact that the Slayers fans appeared to accept our effort is due to Filler steering our story to the promised land. Recca's love of Burning Heroes and attention to detail on every little tidbit, I'm sure, will guide us to another worthy outcome.

Finally Taskforce and Bongo`... Without their coding skills and the translations of Akujin, Faraday, Filler, Ritchie, Shiva Indis, Eien ni Hen, and many others - and the tones they set in their readings - this poor country writer wouldn't know where to begin. Alas! Without teamwork, all of our project pages could very well be blank. So, for all of us, I return a hearty, "Thanks!"


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Wildbill wrote:

I must take off my hat to Shiva Indis for his major role in the finished SS-II story. He is not only an outstanding translator, he understands Japanese from the standpoint of traditional cultural nuances used in game conventions. In more than one place, he basically said, "Bill, what you wrote (in a given string) is not only funny, it fits okay within general translation options and flows well enough in the context of the story. But based upon my knowledge of Japanese syntax and folklore, here is what the character actually meant."

So, we postponed release for months so Shiva could comb through the blocks and make changes at his discretion. He not only produced a more accurate translation overall, he wove his wit, humor, and sense of drama so seamlessly into the story, I could barely distinguish between his work and mine. In fact, the only direct giveaways came to light when we discovered slight formatting adjustments needed on various screens. Needless to say, we hope Shiva will work with us again once he finishes the "lost block" in Chaos Seed.

Also, the Villgust and Ranma stories were jointly written by Taskforce and me, especially Ranma. TF and I are also collaborating on Princess Minerva (along with Eien) and the two Arethas, and his input is strong in Feda. Draken did all the formatting and first drafting in Mystic Ark, and he co-authored the second half of Lennus-II. Moreover, Drakee's strong sense of flow has smoothed the stories for every project since Lennus-II. Red Soul's strong positive influence has contributed vitally to every story from Mystic Ark forward. l would have been lost in Slayers without Filler's collaboration. The fact that the Slayers fans appeared to accept our effort is due to Filler steering our story to the promised land. Recca's love of Burning Heroes and attention to detail on every little tidbit, I'm sure, will guide us to another worthy outcome.

Finally Taskforce and Bongo`... Without their coding skills and the translations of Akujin, Faraday, Filler, Ritchie, Shiva Indis, Eien ni Hen, and many others - and the tones they set in their readings - this poor country writer wouldn't know where to begin. Alas! Without teamwork, all of our project pages could very well be blank. So, for all of us, I return a hearty, "Thanks!"


Considering all this, I must extend my praise to encompass the lot of you. You all do good work. I wish I had a team so dedicated as you lot helping me out. If you guys ever have need for someone to write prose, that is a thing I am good at, particularly iambic pentameter.

Regarding The Slayers, I thought you did well. It is difficult to describe how much of a fan I am of the Slayers; I named my daughter Lina.

If you guys ever make the leap to translating Saturn games, Riglord Saga II is a hell of a good game. You can turn one character into a flying dragon, another into a polar bear, double their size with magic, and then have the dragon carry the polar bear and drop him among enemies. Also, Riglord Saga I, as Blazing Heroes, was barely translated itself.


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:40 pm 
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I wish we could eventually move to encompass Saturn translations (Feda for the Saturn is arguably the best version, with added endings, characters and bugfixes) and the suggestions you gave are very good, Wes Falls.
The thing is, the Saturn hardware, although powerful (I see it as superior to the PS1 in every level, devs just couldn't
squeeze out its power), is very unwieldy, and it would all depend on our mighty binary sage, Bongo' to sort it out at first.


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:25 am 
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FEDA Remake! is pretty dang good, except for its loading times. They are not Albert Odyssey bad, but they are bad.

You know what you could translate that would make a lot of people happy? Wacheroder. Its a completely badass steampunk tactical RPG with music from Ian McDonald. You would also need a German translator for that one, though.


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:30 am 
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Wildbill wrote:
Needless to say, we hope Shiva will work with us again once he finishes the "lost block" in Chaos Seed.


It was actually finished a couple of days ago! About the same time I got done with BH testing. What great timing!
I've been working daily on testing/editing the last part of the game. Hopefully, I'll have something to pass your way in a month's time (or less).


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Post subject: Re: Silva Saga 2 post release feedback
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:47 am 
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Hey there folks, I decided to pop on here again to apologize for my rage induced review on the game's plot :(

I do know that the game is just a game & given the technological limitations that the programmers had to work with back then (in that Golden Age of 16-bit RPGs), I definitely should have been easier on what the game had to offer. I admit that shotgun wedding (I'm not sure if you folks use the same colloquial term for a forced wedding, but from where I'm from that's what we call it) really got to me badly :(

Now that I've cooled off & have looked back on what the game's plot made me felt, I can honestly say that it was like watching a cheesy chick flick LOL!

And in my ranting mood I forgot to praise the one core feature I absolutely loved in the game, the idols :) Collecting & developing the idols was such a fun tidbit & reminded me so much of the capsule monsters from Lufia II. Had the game's developers made another Silva Saga game I would've liked it even more if they made it so that each idol learns different skills at certain levels ala Pokemon style, then when you fuse idols the fused form would learn the skills of both proto form idols :)

By the way, that weird scenario Wes Falls encountered with the game still proceeding to the game's ending despite not beating Zolde III is so hilarious :D So as Red Soul mentioned on his cross examination of my previous post, you (the Hero) are "destined" to end up in Maria's clutches no matter what you do.... including pleading Zolde to kill you ROFL! :mrgreen:


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