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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 7:46 am 
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Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is this game still being worked on? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while now and it doesn't seem to be listed on AGTP's project list either. Furthermore, the latest (beta 2) patch hasn't been updated since 2007. I know that Gideon Zhi is quite busy like the rest of us, but he also has the horrible habit of taking up various projects and then delaying them for over ten, twenty or more years. If he wasn't serious about this, he should've just let us translate this game back when Bongo` was still around. Now it's beginning to look as if this game is doomed from ever receiving a full and proper translation because of his actions (or rather lack of action).

I also know firsthand how difficult and time consuming both romhacking and translating is, but what this guy is doing is ridiculous. Many people on sites such as Reddit and Twitter say that he likes to "make people wait as revenge for asking about progress reports" (like he did with Tactics Ogre years ago when a fake version was released first as "punishment") and other various things along those lines. Such a thing is completely unacceptable and childish. Most fan translators usually avoid taking on games that are being worked on by others. You can see why this is a major problem if someone says that they'll take on a project and never finishes it, thus preventing others from possibly working on it instead. I apologize if my tone sounds harsh, but I've been quite annoyed by this person's smug and elitist attitude for a while now. If you're not going to finish a project, then at least declare it cancelled and offer the translated script and/or tools to another romhacker who can then finish said project and release it for everyone to enjoy. Talk about wasting the translator's time with such nonsense...


"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind."
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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 11:33 am 
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Thanks for the reminder Recca, I still need to get those Ranma 2 Gameboy files into the public domain. Assuming I can find them.


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 1:05 pm 
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Recca wrote:
Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is this game still being worked on? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while now and it doesn't seem to be listed on AGTP's project list either. Furthermore, the latest (beta 2) patch hasn't been updated since 2007. I know that Gideon Zhi is quite busy like the rest of us, but he also has the horrible habit of taking up various projects and then delaying them for over ten, twenty or more years. If he wasn't serious about this, he should've just let us translate this game back when Bongo` was still around. Now it's beginning to look as if this game is doomed from ever receiving a full and proper translation because of his actions (or rather lack of action).

I also know firsthand how difficult and time consuming both romhacking and translating is, but what this guy is doing is ridiculous. Many people on sites such as Reddit and Twitter say that he likes to "make people wait as revenge for asking about progress reports" (like he did with Tactics Ogre years ago when a fake version was released first as "punishment") and other various things along those lines. Such a thing is completely unacceptable and childish. Most fan translators usually avoid taking on games that are being worked on by others. You can see why this is a major problem if someone says that they'll take on a project and never finishes it, thus preventing others from possibly working on it instead. I apologize if my tone sounds harsh, but I've been quite annoyed by this person's smug and elitist attitude for a while now. If you're not going to finish a project, then at least declare it cancelled and offer the translated script and/or tools to another romhacker who can then finish said project and release it for everyone to enjoy. Talk about wasting the translator's time with such nonsense...


I know of many people who think the same as you, they just don't tend to make it public. I also got tired of waiting for many of their projects but to me, what really kills me, rather than the wait, is that lack of feedback and that attitude of disdain towards the people waiting for his work. He makes you wait, but you don't even know if he's really working on the project you're interested on. In my case I was interested in Madara 2, but after 12 years waiting without even knowing if he's made any progress during these years or just shelved it, I ended up playing it by using the text extractor I created for that game and DeepL (I just finished that game yesterday. One more to cross out of my list).

Rather than the waiting time, it's that "not knowing if I'm just waiting for nothing" what makes one lose his nerves. I know how difficult and time consuming such projects are, but I don't mind waiting several years as long as I know the game is certainly being worked on and I'm not just waiting for nothing. In that regard, D-D is much more transparent.

I'm really grateful for all the work AGTP has done in the past, but nowadays I've practically disregarded them as a reliable translation group. I don't even take their new projects announcements seriously.


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:24 pm 
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Recca wrote:
Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is this game still being worked on? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while now and it doesn't seem to be listed on AGTP's project list either. Furthermore, the latest (beta 2) patch hasn't been updated since 2007. I know that Gideon Zhi is quite busy like the rest of us, but he also has the horrible habit of taking up various projects and then delaying them for over ten, twenty or more years. If he wasn't serious about this, he should've just let us translate this game back when Bongo` was still around. Now it's beginning to look as if this game is doomed from ever receiving a full and proper translation because of his actions (or rather lack of action).

I also know firsthand how difficult and time consuming both romhacking and translating is, but what this guy is doing is ridiculous. Many people on sites such as Reddit and Twitter say that he likes to "make people wait as revenge for asking about progress reports" (like he did with Tactics Ogre years ago when a fake version was released first as "punishment") and other various things along those lines. Such a thing is completely unacceptable and childish. Most fan translators usually avoid taking on games that are being worked on by others. You can see why this is a major problem if someone says that they'll take on a project and never finishes it, thus preventing others from possibly working on it instead. I apologize if my tone sounds harsh, but I've been quite annoyed by this person's smug and elitist attitude for a while now. If you're not going to finish a project, then at least declare it cancelled and offer the translated script and/or tools to another romhacker who can then finish said project and release it for everyone to enjoy. Talk about wasting the translator's time with such nonsense...
Just read the backdrop on this. Everything was resolved amicably 11 years ago. Notwithstanding the Mystic Ark experience, my purpose in responding here is to muse over these twisted people out in the world who believe they are entitled to authors' creative works on terms they dictate.

I've known a few folks who have performed rare and impressive achievements. One colleague in the intel world hand dug his own swimming pool in his back yard. It took him years. He mixed several bags of cement at a time in a secondhand portable mixer he picked up at a yard sale for $50 and methodically filled spaces between forms through rebar, plumbing and electrical wiring he installed himself. I and others watched in awe as he toiled away in all kinds of weather year round in his spare time. Once completed, the finished backyard rec area was a masterpiece. He had the whole shop over for pool parties several times a year. We didn't need to rent an expensive offsite conference venue. All we had to do was drive over to Joe's house.

The parallel? Through the years, AG, we, and others have followed a similar pattern of effort on a whole different type of output. Then, along come a few yahoos in the general public who rant and rave about this and that from here to there. To me, this is tantamount to Joe taking five years to build a swimming pool while the whole neighborhood watches, all the while demanding that he get it done by such and such and eventually declaring they have a right to use the pool and even dictate the color of the tile, brand of beer in the outdoor fridge, and whatnot.

As I've mentioned before, the best way to respond to such clamor from toxic types is ignore it. Still, Recca, I feel your pain (as a corrupt, disingenuous adulterer named Clinton once said). How about a Romanian Princess Minerva? It's a fairly stable patch.


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:28 pm 
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akualung wrote:
Recca wrote:
Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is this game still being worked on? I haven't heard anything about it in a long while now and it doesn't seem to be listed on AGTP's project list either. Furthermore, the latest (beta 2) patch hasn't been updated since 2007. I know that Gideon Zhi is quite busy like the rest of us, but he also has the horrible habit of taking up various projects and then delaying them for over ten, twenty or more years. If he wasn't serious about this, he should've just let us translate this game back when Bongo` was still around. Now it's beginning to look as if this game is doomed from ever receiving a full and proper translation because of his actions (or rather lack of action).

I also know firsthand how difficult and time consuming both romhacking and translating is, but what this guy is doing is ridiculous. Many people on sites such as Reddit and Twitter say that he likes to "make people wait as revenge for asking about progress reports" (like he did with Tactics Ogre years ago when a fake version was released first as "punishment") and other various things along those lines. Such a thing is completely unacceptable and childish. Most fan translators usually avoid taking on games that are being worked on by others. You can see why this is a major problem if someone says that they'll take on a project and never finishes it, thus preventing others from possibly working on it instead. I apologize if my tone sounds harsh, but I've been quite annoyed by this person's smug and elitist attitude for a while now. If you're not going to finish a project, then at least declare it cancelled and offer the translated script and/or tools to another romhacker who can then finish said project and release it for everyone to enjoy. Talk about wasting the translator's time with such nonsense...


I know of many people who think the same as you, they just don't tend to make it public. I also got tired of waiting for many of their projects but to me, what really kills me, rather than the wait, is that lack of feedback and that attitude of disdain towards the people waiting for his work. He makes you wait, but you don't even know if he's really working on the project you're interested on. In my case I was interested in Madara 2, but after 12 years waiting without even knowing if he's made any progress during these years or just shelved it, I ended up playing it by using the text extractor I created for that game and DeepL (I just finished that game yesterday. One more to cross out of my list).

Rather than the waiting time, it's that "not knowing if I'm just waiting for nothing" what makes one lose his nerves. I know how difficult and time consuming such projects are, but I don't mind waiting several years as long as I know the game is certainly being worked on and I'm not just waiting for nothing. In that regard, D-D is much more transparent.

I'm really grateful for all the work AGTP has done in the past, but nowadays I've practically disregarded them as a reliable translation group. I don't even take their new projects announcements seriously.
We in this group value greatly the players who give us positive feedback. So, if someone were to come out of the woodwork and hand me a framework for Madara-II, I would do it.


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:13 pm 
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I understand what you're saying Wildbill, I truly do. However, the story here is quite a bit different. We're not talking about dealing with some annoying individuals that can't stop asking when a patch will released like some kind of hyperactive, bratty kids. It's actually quite the opposite in fact. I've seen many polite and loyal fans of his treated very poorly by him for even daring to ask when he believes that a translation will be finished. He then delays the release for an already or almost finished game for ten or more years, quite literally.

See, you're probably thinking of this scenario:

Annoying person: "Hey, when will this finally be released? COME ON ALREADY!!!
Gideon Zhi: "Please be patient sir, it will get there eventually."
Annoying person: "NOW NOW NOW!!!"

When in reality, it's much more like this:

Fan: "Hi Gideon Zhi, I'm a huge fan of yours and love all the games that AGTP has translated. Could I possibly ask when you believe that this game will be ready?"
Gideon Zhi: "Hahaha, NO! Just for that, you'll now have to wait until the year 2058! No more questions, everyone get lost!"

This pretty much sums up how he chooses to talk to most of his fans. I've actually seen him say "Hahaha, no." when someone innocently asked if he needed a beta tester for a game. Of course most people would've politely just responded by saying something along the lines of "Thanks for the offer, but we have enough people now." Another problem with him is that he talks and acts as though he's above everyone else which causes many people to become antagonistic towards him.

And I get the feeling that he is indeed holding onto already completed or close to completed projects in order to "teach people a lesson." Take the game Rejoice! for example. The script was announced to be finished in 2008 and there's been two gameplay videos of it on Youtube for the longest time now, so what on earth could be taking so long? It's been 13 years already of no word except for only two old news posts about it, one in 2008 and the other in 2011. Let's now look over some evidence, shall we?

Let's take Mystic Ark for example now. If I remember correctly, he started this project before D-D and did nothing with it for years. The second that this group started working on it, he then scrambled to try and finish it before us just to announce to the world that "his version is better than ours". Even though most people seem to like our version more overall (due to the more serious tone in the script, extended text space, double text lines for item names, etc.). I could post over a dozen links from different sites proving this, but it would be a waste of time to do so. He also rushed to finish Hourai High just to "steal it" from us again (a project which D-D latter cancelled after his release). And I'm pretty sure that he did the same with this game as well, along with who knows how many else (preventing others from possibly translating them first for the reasons that were stated above in my first post).

Again, I apologize for my harsh sounding tone, but I'm becoming increasingly annoyed with this person's "holier-than-thou" attitude and "godlike status" in which no one may ask him a simple question without "facing retaliation" both from him personally and from the RHDN community as a whole. Furthermore, there's a huge difference between an unreasonable irate snowflake demanding that someone takes down or changes their translation of a game because they said so versus a longtime loyal fan who's simply asking when a project might be finished. There's a famous quote which I believe applies well in this context:

"A man always has two reasons for doing anything: a good reason and the real reason."
- J. P. Morgan

In Gideon Zhi's case, the good reason is that he's simply "busy" and the real reason is because he behaves and acts like a shameless elitist troll. We at D-D and most other fan translators for that matter, don't do such things. But I suppose that I'll stop here as I've now said enough about this already. I just got a little irritated about this subject concerning AGTP and the way that Gideon Zhi seems to metaphorically spit in everyone's face, including his own fans. It's also again, a giant waste of the translator's time and effort to withhold a project's release for no real good reason other than "punishing" people for asking when a translation project might be finished.


"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind."
- Edward D. Morrison (Tales of Phantasia)


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:06 pm 
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Recca wrote:
Let's take Mystic Ark for example now. If I remember correctly, he started this project before D-D and did nothing with it for years. The second that this group started working on it, he then scrambled to try and finish it before us just to announce to the world that "his version is better than ours". Even though most people seem to like our version more overall (due to the more serious tone in the script, extended text space, double text lines for item names, etc.). I could post over a dozen links from different sites proving this, but it would be a waste of time to do so. He also rushed to finish Hourai High just to "steal it" from us again (a project which D-D latter cancelled after his release). And I'm pretty sure that he did the same with this game as well, along with who knows how many else (preventing others from possibly translating them first for the reasons that were stated above in my first post).


Actually, that is not how that Mystic Ark situation went Recca. He was given our unfinished and unreleased work by Necrosaro (we had to pry out of him who had done it), and even though he knew how to get in touch with us (me personally for sure), decided to use it without asking. He never even bothered to ask if work was continuing on it because we were inactive for a few years. His patch is based entirely around our initial work. (And even to this day we've never so much as gotten a thanks or apology, and I don't think we have any credit in his work either but I can't say for sure.) He claims to have gotten it retranslated, but I've been told by a couple people that have seen the raw Akujin translation that a lot of it is word for word from Akujin's raw script so I have my doubts. He did get Hourai retranslated because I lost the translation (and he was entitled to that translation the entire time as that was going to at first be a joint project.) I found it 2 weeks after they'd finished the translation. Sadly, I thought I'd lost it in a hard drive crash but did find it eventually on an old backup CD or Hard Drive. He wanted my insertion files but as I told him that would have done him no good because I had done some work and reordered the files for my inserter (they were not in order anymore and had no Japanese in them.) They couldn't use my inserter because while mostly working it was a work in progress and relied on some assembly hacks I had done already.

As for Mystic Ark, I won't say I'm happy with how all that wound up but I've tried to let it go. Except, I want to make sure that the record on that is straight though. As, as I said, I'm pretty sure he never did give us any credit besides a post or two on our forum around that time acknowledging he used our work. Besides, we did get one over on him in the end: What REALLY pissed him off with us was that we purposely mislead him to believe we were a lot less far along than he thought and we beat him to release by a few days.

Sorry Recca, I'm not mad at you or anything. I just want to make sure those events of that time are completely clear.

BTW: In case you are wondering, yes Necrosaro did have our permission to have the files at the time, he initially was going to be part of the project for a while and we kept him updated on our work. He was the one that initially brought the project up with us. However, he didn't bother to contact us either before he gave it to Ghid or he released our unfinished Taloon work, which bummed Bongo` out and why it never got to v1.00 because he wouldn't work on it anymore.

As Wildbill said, would you like to do Princess Minerva in Romanian? I'm not sure I can get accent marks but if you can do it without them, I'll be happy to pass it along. (You'll have to be careful of the status/battle stuff though, moving things on there can mess up portraits but you'll figure it out how to deal with it easily I'm sure.)


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 12:47 am 
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I don’t pay any attention to what goes on with other hobby groups. It’s really none of my business what style of translating they choose or how they interact with people who want to use their patches. Our work takes up most of my gaming time anyway. I do play a few commercially produced games occasionally. My best advice for anyone who feels offended after entering a discussion on someone’s www board is maybe avoid it in the future.

You’re a good man, Recca. We are pleased to have you on our team.


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 8:02 am 
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Interesting, thanks for clearing up that info about Mystic Ark, Taskforce. I had no idea that Gideon Zhi got his initial resources from D-D. It was listed on AGTP's project list for a long while, so I assumed that he had started his translation first. Sorry about the confusion and thanks again for the clarification. Well, all of that is in the past now. So I suppose that it's indeed best to look past it now after all.

And thanks as well Wildbill, I'm glad to be a part of this great team. I honestly think that this is the best translation group, both past and present. It's an honor to be able to work alongside such honest, knowledgeable and hard working folks. If time permits, I hope that we'll be able to continue working together on translation projects like this for many more years to come. If only we could recruit a main romhacker and translator, our problems would be solved. But regardless of that, we still have our current projects to focus on for now.

About Princess Minerva, I got so caught up in all of this that I forgot to comment on it. Honestly speaking, I don't really know much about this game. I haven't gotten around to playing it yet, but I'll certainly take a look at it and get back to you on that latter on. By the way, after taking a quick look through a random playthrough video of it on Youtube, I noticed that some of the text in battles seems to be cut-off from the screen on the right side. Take a look at this video starting at time frame 25:00 to see what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok4gyOC9Q7o
Was this cut-off text in battle missed before release or is this person playing using an older version of the patch? The uploaded video's date is Jan 23, 2018.

Speaking of which, I still have the Burning Heroes text inserter that Wildbill sent me back in 2012, but I haven't yet gotten started on it. Even though I love this game, the idea of translating its massive script into Romanian and then beta testing all eight scenarios again like I had done for the English version years before seems a bit overwhelming as of now. But I do plan on getting to it eventually when I have some more free time available. For now though, I'd prefer to focus on translating games with a smaller script size that would also allow me the time to work on our English projects as well if needed.

Record of Lodoss War would also be an interesting game to translate if I had the inserter for it, but it's also got a rather large script, so I'm not in any kind of hurry to start on it right away. Secret of Mana could potentially be a good project to take on as well, as it seems to be rather popular with most Romanian SNES fans. However, I don't have the proper translation tools for it. I only found one called "somedit" at RHDN, but it's very bug prone and incomplete. As for other potential projects, I still also have the inserter for Galaxy Robo from Draken, so I could take on that project instead. The script is quite small compared to most RPGs, but it's a rather difficult game to playthrough when beta testing.

Power of the Hired would be an even better choice, but it looks as if the text glitches might prove to be potentially troublesome. The two Daikaijuu Monogatari games would also be good choices as well. But again, the scripts are both pretty long. Hmm... I'll take a closer look at all of these various options and get back to you when I've made a decision. Thank you both for the consideration, by the way. There's a lot of interesting games to choose from that would deserve to be translated into Romanian as well. I'll try to see which games are the most popular with the Romanian fans in the retro gaming communities that I could translate (if I can obtain the proper tools available). Chrono Trigger seems to have been the biggest hit with them so far, which is probably not surprising since it's one of the most well known and popular SNES games of all time.

And if by some chance you read this Gideon Zhi, I just wanted to let you know that I'm not trying to attack you personally or anything like that. I respect the fact that you've put so much hard work into releasing all of AGTP's translations, but I firmly believe that you need to tone down some of your "antics" in lack of better words. There's not really any point in alienating yourself from your own fan base and upsetting so many people in such a way either. You could always try asking for additional help if needed on your projects. Regardless, I know that this really isn't any of my business and that you're free to do as you please, so I'll stop here and drop this subject.

Little Master III is an interesting looking strategy RPG with a very light feel to it that would definitely deserve a proper English translation. There isn't really any "rule" about different groups releasing multiple translations of a game. Though, it appears as if this was abandoned anyway since it's not even on AGTP's project list. Wildbill, if you still have those insertion tools that were mentioned on the first page of this thread and are okay with it, I could try translating the remaining text using my basic knowledge of Japanese along with an automatic translator such as DeepL and an online dictionary like Jisho. Or even better, maybe we could contact Eien Ni Hen and get the translated script from her if possible. It's just an idea though if no one else decides to take on this project. There's no point in letting her hard work go to waste after all.


"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind."
- Edward D. Morrison (Tales of Phantasia)


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Post subject: Re: About Little Master III...
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 9:34 am 
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Nuts to that, I'd fire things back up for LM3 if I were you guys and IF you still had the interest and time. IMO, this just shows, don't stop doing something if someone else says they are working on it (too). Carry on doing your own thing. I mean, if that is what you had wanted.


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